Tuesday, June 9, 2009

HEALTH CARE AND THE OBAMA PLAN


I request your thoughts today on one of the largest issues the United States faces with the Democrats in power. Our President says his new health care plan will not add to the deficit. Personally I find that fascinating. If you listen to Michael Moore you’d think Cuba was the envy of the world with its state run health care. Here in our country states have tried it with very poor results. Is the system broke? Where do we rank among the world in level of care, costs and cutting edge technology? What are your thoughts and possible solutions to this “problem”?

11 comments:

Nameless Cynic said...

See, now here's where it gets confusing. The GOP has been whining for months about the "socialism" of the USA, but if the superior Free Market and their health care programs are allowed to compete against the terrible, horrible, no-good, very bad government-run-healthcare-that-nobody-will-want... well, apparently the health insurance companies don't think that they can compete.

Why is that again? I thought that the Holy Free Market produced a better product than anything that a government agency could crank out. When did that change? Why is this "socialist government healthcare plan" suddenly so much better than the civilian model?

(Oh, by the way, not to go off on a tangent or anything, but this "creeping socialism" that they're comparing government bailouts-with-oversight to - the percentage of US companies that the government now has a controlling interest in is 0.0507%. Any reasonable estimate would round that to 0%. But you do your own math, OK?)

Let's look at the real story, shall we?

Healthcare costs put America at a disadvantage to every other industrialized country. Or to put it in the words of the Council on Foreign Relations:

The United States spent 16 percent of its GDP in 2007 on health care, higher than any other developed nation. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates that number will rise to 25 percent by 2025 without changes to federal law (PDF). Employer-funded coverage is the structural mainstay of the U.S. health insurance system. According the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, about 71 percent of private employees in the United States had access to employer-sponsored health plans in 2006. A November 2008 Kaiser Foundation report notes that access to employer-sponsored health insurance has been on the decline (PDF) among low-income workers, and health premiums for workers have risen 114 percent in the last decade. Small businesses are less likely than large employers to be able to provide health insurance as a benefit. At 12 percent, health care is the most expensive benefit paid by U.S. employers, according to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

You know, feel free to do the math yourself. But remember this:

68 percent of those who filed for bankruptcy had health insurance. In addition, the study found that 50 percent of all bankruptcy filings were partly the result of medical expenses. Every 30 seconds in the United States someone files for bankruptcy in the aftermath of a serious health problem.

This math is not hard to do, once you stop listening to people who are bought and paid for by Big Pharma and the various healthcare industries.

Eman said...

You know... I want to make this real simple for Y'all.

Who is responsible for YOUR health?

Diogenes said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Eman said...

Se, this is where the rubber meets the road.

I am responsible for my health, my insurance, paying my bills, my mortgage, my gas & electric, car payments etc. It’s me. Not you, not her, not him…ME!

If I am without work or underemployed, I have to fund a way to make ends meet and work harder or work more and pay for the insurance I need for myself and family.

There is no government responsibility here. The government roll is to make sure the Doctors are qualified and available in your area. To me, anything more is up to me.

No doctors around? You move! No good jobs with insurance? You move.

Responsibility means getting your needs met is up to you. Working hard and making yourself an asset to the company, even if you’re underemployed, makes you less expendable and you can make greater demands for benefits.

Why is it you are not your responsibility and I am your responsibility??????

Diogenes said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Nameless Cynic said...

Well, if Basic Economics doesn't do it for you, let's move on to philosophy.

See, I'm under the impression that you fancy yourself a Christian.

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."


(Matthew 25:34-45)

Eman said...

This is a very telling moment. You BOTH walked right into my little trap.

When the rubber meets the road and you find nothing in the documents which established the United States of America saying what you believe should be done, you refer back to scripture to find a reason that someone should pay your way. I cannot tell you how hard God and I are laughing right now. You both fell right into it.

“That's only part of what bothers me so much about the Religious Right: they claim to be so loving and charitable as Christians are supposed to be, but then they turn around and, politically, turn our society into a survival of the fittest.”

“See, I'm under the impression that you fancy yourself a Christian.”

Loving my neighbor means giving them my money? So I’m supposed to give those who persecute me for my beliefs the mean to pay their medical bills so they can wait for their next government check and go buy their crack? (I’ve always thought welfare recipients should be drug tested)

Wow… I am astonished. Those who have owe those who don’t. You both are socialists. This is pure socialism.

Bill, did you happen to read the passage before the one you quoted?

Matthew 25:14-30

You see, it’s this very passage many of us on the religious right refer to when those who are not willing to do what’s necessary to live the life style they desire say, “You owe me”

Do you not see what you just did here? You used the Bible to justify your view. You use God’s word when it suits you. You take advantage of those who work hard so you don’t have to. That is not how God works. It may be YOUR INTERPRETATION but it’s wrong and it’s lazy and it feeds peoples poor work ethic. It’s what drove the black man down the road of entitlement. You think because you live here it’s your prerogative to be cared for. Not so. That may be what FDR thought, but it’s not what our founding fathers said. Not even close.

The people unable to pay get free care, which I pay for already in higher premiums. Then you tell me I have to pay higher costs because more people can’t pay. The I have to pay more for simple doctor visits because people can’t pay, then a procedure cost twice what it does in Canada because…people don’t pay their medical bills.

If people paid their bills, the system would be fixed. But they don’t, and they don’t over and over and over and over and over and over again and again and again. Why? “Well, because it’s America and I shouldn’t have to pay for anything because I live in America…so there….

Nameless Cynic said...

Well, not to be rude, but this means that you're picking and choosing from the Bible, rather than accepting the Inerrant Word of God, doesn't it? You love your Parable of the Talents, but then ignore "whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me."

It's a fascinating habit of the Religious Right. You ignore the Sermon on the Mount in favor of "Blessed are the cheesemakers."

Perhaps you should consider the background here, and then absorb the lesson here and here, and even here.

Oh, and you set "traps"? Really, Eric? You make the baby Jesus cry.

You're forgetting, Eman, I am that which you should probably fear. I was raised Christian. I've read the Bible. Several times.

The young man said to him, "All these I have observed; what do I still lack?"
Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."
(Matthew 19:20-21 - remember the "eye of the needle"?)

Jesus was a liberal, my friend. He loved the poor, the unworthy, and he helped all those in need. Tell me, which is more in the spirit of Jesus: Pat Robertson calling on hitmen to take out Hugo Chavez, or Mother Theresa working with the lepers?

I'm just curious. (See, once again, I've given you facts and you ignored them. I'm more than happy to debate philosophy with you. I'd just like you to reconcile it with your own stated religion.)

Eman said...

Bill, I ignored nothing. I read what you posted and have read the parable three dozen times before. I have four and a half years of homiletic study under Dr. Phil Barnhart. I ignored nothing. I brought up what YOU ignored verses before your posting. It is you who cherry picked verses my friend.

You both want to call me a hypocrite. Absolutely fascinating. If Jesus is a liberal, why do most liberals seek to make the Bible a collection of fables? Why do liberals such as Obama attend for 20 years Churches that preach hate?

The irony of you two telling me about the Bibles teachings when I asked you where in the Bill of Rights or The Constitution is it stated the Federal Government is responsible for health care has shown you both to not only ignore my question, but to grasp at the only thing truly sound and moral and just: GOD’S WORD. You, not I, have invoked the words of Christ here.

Jesus a liberal??? Jesus would not support abortion. Jesus would not support gay marriage and in fact called homosexuality an abomination to God. Jesus healed the sick and raised the dead but did not take the power to do it from you and I and everyone around them, he was given his power from God. Jesus over and over condemned laziness and promiscuity. The left, with their passing out condoms at schools, planned parenthood and never advocating abstinence promote, do not.

Jesus talked of personal responsibility for ones actions. Barney Frank is gay. When a republican is caught tapping the foot of a man in an airport restroom, he is verbally stoned. A republican has an affair, he is ousted by the press coverage and the liberals they parrot. Bill Clinton gets a BJ in the Oval office and “It’s a personal matter” Oh please…

A man pulls a gun and kills a guard at a holocaust museum. All day the press said this guy was a right wing extremist. The facts of the case, however, are such that if we want start assigning blame for this beyond this nutcase Jew hater, and notice that very few people actually want to do that. They want to claim this guy didn't have the ability to act on his own. He only could act if he was inspired by somebody. Well, who did he hate? He hated both Bushes. He hated neocons. He hated John McCain. He hated Republicans. He hated Jews as well. He believes in an inside job conspiracy of 9/11. This guy is a leftist, if anything. This guy's beliefs, this guy's hate stems from influence that you find on the left, not on the right.

When your side has no morals, no ethics and no reason to follow law because the press won’t hold their feet to the flame and hold them accountable, why should they follow the law or have any standard of behavior? BUT EVERY TIME A REPUBLICAN TRIPS, HE MUST FALL!!! Letterman is just the most recent putrid example of the crap your side throws up on our side and the show and Dave go on.

Do NOT preach to me. I have been told I am wrong thousands of times. If I make you two upset, I must be doing something RIGHT! I will sleep well. It is well with my soul. I KNOW where I’m going, should this be my last blog entry.

Eman said...

Poll: 80% Oppose Public Health Care For Illegals

Friday, June 12, 2009 2:16 PM
By: David A. Patten

An overwhelming 80 percent of U.S. voters oppose proposals for government-backed health-care plans for illegal immigrants, according to a Rasmussen Reports poll released Friday.

That compares to only 11 percent who think providing illegal workers with a government health-care plan is a good idea.

The strong opposition to health-care coverage for illegals, based on a national poll of 1,000 likely voters, comes amidst ongoing negotiations over the proposed health-care reform package now working its way through Congress.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, over 10 million illegal immigrants in the United States lack health insurance. That's about 22 percent of the 46 million people in America who are without insurance.

American voters continue to strongly favor the idea that all Americans should have quality health-care coverage, however. Sixty-five percent say that every American should have access to quality health care. Only 22 percent disagree.

Support for providing health-care coverage for illegals is sharply divided along party lines. According to Rasmussen, nine out of 10 likely voters who describe themselves as conservative are against granting health-care coverage to illegals.

About half of those who identify themselves as liberal think providing health-care to undocumented workers is a good idea.

Eman said...

Diogenes.. You’re done. Your right to comment on this blog is revoked. This is a permanent revocation. I thought you knew what “I’m sorry” meant. It is quite apparent you lack the maturity to understand repentance. Go spread your filth and pestilence elsewhere. You have no idea how often you have proven my points on this blog by your insulting and crass remarks. Get behind me Satan.